Out of the Balkan Basket

"Ordinary people" in Skoplje showed bitterness rather than fear - why him, why the man whose reasonable policy had spared so many human lives. A few months after the attempted assassination, Gligorov was standing firmly on his feet and Macedonia strengthened its international positions. It joined the "Partnership for Peace," normalized relations with the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, slightly eased the tension with Greece and it is getting difficult to find a vacant house or space for an embassy (there are more than 90 embassies in Skoplje at present).

This interview with President Gligorov was made shortly after it had been announced that the president's personal friend Slavko Milosavlevski was packing his suitcases as Macedonia's first ambassador to F.R. Yugoslavia (F.R.Y.). Having agreed with President Gligorov that the normalization of relations between F.R. Yugoslavia and Macedonia had unnecessarily been delayed, we asked him about the unresolved dispute concerning the succession.

Gligorov: F.R.Y.'s stand, as far as I can see, is to insist that Yugoslavia is the only successor of the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRY). This does not seem realistic to me, concerning all the internationally important decisions. Even the Badinter Commission, no matter what someone might think about it, adopted the conclusion that Yugoslavia had disintegrated and that all the states formed in its territory were the successors of the former Yugoslavia. This does not bring into question the fact that Yugoslavia in the form of Serbia and in some other forms had existed in the past, and this is what we said in the Belgrade agreement. It existed as one of the first states in the Balkans. We do not question that continuity. All we want is to make clear that SFRY was a composite state made up of the factions that took part in the war. We had a joint Supreme Command, but each of the republics acted independently in its territory because the circumstances varied.

Do you believe that the question of succession can be resolved soon?

The Yugoslav People's Army (JNA) withdrew from Macedonia voluntarily, upon the signing of an agreement, there were no conflicts or victims. In a different situation, such circumstances would undoubtedly lead to the simplest possible resolution of the succession problem between two nations or two states. I know that there are political powers in Serbia who have a different opinion and this is why I highly appreciate the step F.R. Yugoslavia made by recognizing Macedonia's name and the continuity of our sovereignty.

In Macedonia's relation with F.R.Y., succession is the problem. What is your relation with the other parts of the former Yugoslavia?

We started developing economic and trade relations with Slovenia while the war was still in process in Croatia and Bosnia. In the meantime, Slovenia has become the fourth partner in Macedonia's trade. As practical people and good merchants, the Slovenes found the way of sailing from Kopar in Slovenia to Drac in Albania and then the goods are easily transported to Macedonia, and vice versa. The ship which sailed regularly every week played an important role. Of course, there were other trade routes, too, because the roads in Albania are rather bad and there were goods which had to be handled more carefully, so they went via Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary.

The situation with Croatia is a little more complex because of the circumstances there. In one period, they were preoccupied by the war. The exchange is not as great as with Slovenia, but it is important. It is important to preserve at least a part of the former market and to develop it in the new circumstances.

You strongly oppose the idea of pushing Macedonia into some kind of a new "Balkan basket" and your motto is "Europeanization yes, regionalization no." But the European Union seems to be advocating regionalization.

We believed this issue to have been overcome. Simply because we are for any kind of regional cooperation. This is not disputable. But when a clause on regional connecting appeared in the draft of our agreement with the European Union, we asked for an explanation. This had not been a problem in any of the previous agreements with the E.U. Why now? Regional cooperation as a general idea is not disputable. We immediately offered all our neighbors open borders and free communication of people, goods, capital and we have no reserves in this respect. We want as much cooperation as possible with all our neighbors. Which regional association we shall join must remain an independent decision of every country.

I do not agree with the ideas that Europe should keep the Balkans in some kind of a ghetto, then civilize it and then decide what to do with it. This could cost Europe dearly, as was the case with Bosnia. Sixty thousand troops have to keep peace there now.

Macedonia has recently joined "Partnership for Peace." How much self-confidence does your country get from the presence of the American troops?

Their presence, regarding the numbers, is really symbolic. It cannot be a military warranty for the country's safety. But their presence does have a certain importance. U.N. peace-keepers were very successful in some incidents on the borders with Serbia and Albania. They went right to the General Staff in Belgrade and said things could not go on that way. They took the maps issued by the General Staff and explained it was the territory which belonged to Macedonia. All right, the border is not regularly marked, so no one could swear whether it was a meter to the left or right. However, the incidents caused anxiety. They met with General Perisic in Belgrade and explained what further conflicts in the south would mean, with Kosovo so close. After this, there were no more conflicts at the border.

Macedonia has firmly decided to enter the European Union when possible and to become a member of NATO.

Is the dispute between Greece and Macedonia anywhere close to a compromise solution and how far is Macedonia ready to go in the compromise?

The Greeks have the theory that Macedonia is, in fact, Greek while the Albanians have pretentions concerning the western part of Macedonia although the census conducted according to all European standards shows that ethnic Albanians are not a majority in Macedonia, as some people claim.

Due to this situation, we simply must take care of our identity, language and history. This is something we must not neglect, because these are the bases of the independence of our state. The change of name would cause a big psychological and ethical problem among the population - people would wonder what it is, who they are. We had a referendum a few years ago in which the people said they wanted an independent state.

The prevailing opinion in Greece used to be that an independent Macedonia was a threat for Greece. They probably believed that Macedonia would have some pretentions concerning northern Greece and that a new Balkan dispute would arise. We proclaimed a totally different principle - Macedonia as an independent state is possible only within the existing borders. Everything else would be an illusion and would lead to new conflicts and a new Balkan war.

When we were adopting the Constitution, we had to struggle against the nationalists in Macedonia's political public, who lost the elections and could not implement their policies.

Your policy has, from the beginning, been based on four pillars - Western orientation, equidistance toward neighbors, patient and tolerant resolution of inter-ethnic problems and a reform course in politics and economy. There are hints that the inter-ethnic pillar has become rather loose in the meantime.

In the past five years, many people believed in some kind of ethnic unity, according to which all the people of the same nationality would have to think and act in the same direction. This is a misconception of nationalism - to unite the entire nation by just one slogan, in an attempt to achieve a great ideal of unification, forming a big, ethnically pure state. I am convinced that most of the ethnic Albanians in Macedonia see this state as theirs, and if they could choose between living here or in Albania, that they would remain here. But we also keep reiterating that there is a red line beyond which we shall never go - we shall not allow the forming of some autonomies, Ilirides, or perhaps secession. We are willing to talk about all other issues and to say openly and clearly what is possible and what is not, according to the Constitution and law.

Do you remember the details of the 3 October 1995 assassination?

I do not remember the event itself. I survived thanks to an escort who pulled me out of the car right away. The assassination took place near the City Hospital and I was lucky to have been treated by the right doctor who knew what to do. Then I was taken to the clinic, where doctors were called for consultation. I have the impression that all the doctors were impressed by the situation and that they were in a dilemma whether to operate on the injured part of my head. They probably feared what would happen if the operation was not successful. Many doctors arrived in Skoplje shortly. Among them was a very experienced neuro-surgeon from England. President Chirac also sent a team to see what they could do. This was good because they were ophthalmologists and my eye had been injured. Doctors came also from Serbia, Greece, Slovenia, an American surgeon came, so there were many good specialists in one place. When they saw how the vital organs were functioning they decided that I could survive if I was operated on as soon as possible. The operation lasted eight hours. The next day it was clear that everything would be all right and that I would recover. It is behind me, it is past. It ended well, and what is most important, the aim was not accomplished.

In spite of the inefficient investigation, do you have any idea who and why wanted your death?

I have no proof, but I think those were the forces that do not want stability in the Balkans. One of the ways to shake up the Balkans once again was to destabilize Macedonia, because all the neighbors would automatically be involved in the situation. No one would remain calm - Albanians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Greeks and even Turkey which, being the largest Balkan country, is entitled to a certain presence and influence in the Balkans. These forces were not satisfied with peace, with the hints that profitable deals would cease - all that the war, arm and drug dealing had been ensuring. Huge profits, in the first place. They probably thought this was a way to cause uncertainty in Macedonia. Perhaps they thought that the young people in the government would not know what to do. This did not happen. These people carried out their tasks very successfully in the new situation.

I was absent from public life for three and a half months. When I started seeing people informally they explained to me what had been going on and I realized they felt great relief because I survived. It was more of a psychological thing. The people realized that in the five most difficult years this country was out of the war. No one got killed.

The attempted assassination did not change my attitudes. It did not influence my view of Macedonia's internal order, its future or international position. The assassination showed that this was the aim - to change the person in order to open up the file of the policy, to see whether it had been good or Macedonia needed something else.