"I Have Some Good News"

On New Year's Eve, when on the streets of Belgrade an unparalleled number of people in a very special mood kept calling for democratic changes ("Man, everyone's here except Sloba and Mira", as one of those who were present noticed that evening), Vesna Pesic had for the first time from the moment when she started addressing the mass on the Republika Square (Freedom Square), spoken a command. Instead of the usual - "I have some good news for you about our dictator", she commanded: "Walkers, onward march into 1997, a year in which we will attain democracy in Serbia".

This conversation for VREME was held only some ten hours or so after Vesna Pesic had commanded "walkers, onward march" at the Square. Which is why we start off with the question how much longer do we need to walk in Serbia before we can reach serious democratic changes. Naturally, also taking into account walking in one spot when they forbid walks.

PESIC: Our walks and protests would really have a happy ending at this moment if they would recognize the election results of November 17. Otherwise, I don't believe that in this way we could walk to the actual change of the regime in Serbia. Something like that could happen only in case Milosevic decides to recognize November 17. Then all of this would have to be extended. Then probably many people who are not walkers and demonstrators at this moment would start thinking whether these policies are rational. Especially since we now also have the report of the OSCE commission on the table. If that report isn't recognized, then our country will once again bear the brunt of a strong diplomatic blow and we will suffer certain consequences.

VREME: In his New Year's message to the nation Slobodan Milosevic did not by a single word mention what was happening under his very window. The only thing he announced again was a bright future...

In that address he first of all failed to give a good assessment of the year 1996. He said it was the first year in which we didn't have war and sanctions. But all that is occurring right now has really been "cooking" and has started in Serbia long before these mass demonstrations. That could have been discerned last spring. Even then it could be noticed how, even though the war had ended and there were no sanctions, we really weren't headed anywhere. We didn't have any direction, no reforms were commenced. And not only are we standing in one spot, but rather it seemed as though via the Yugoslav United Left's (JUL) story we were going back to the initial stage. That surfaced most drastically in the Avramovic case and in his negotiations with the IMF. Those talks were stopped due to fairly unclear reasons rather then because of the continuity story, but what really stood behind it, no one knows.

Until now, Milosevic has built his authority mostly on his relentlessness, arrogance and the fact that he despises his political rivals. Do you have the feeling that he could now simmer down, take the blows, wait until you burn out or make a mistake along the way, and only then attempt to find a way out of this?

From the beginning he didn't believe that this annulment of the election results could bring about such revolt. He was surprised. I must say, not to appear as though we're throwing our weight about, he wasn't the only person who was surprised. We were as well. Which is why I say that all this had to have been cooking for a long time now. In the last 10 years, we haven't led normal lives here, Milosevic has been harassing us all this time. Something is always going on, always some huge issues, always pressure. And I have the feeling that all this, amongst other things, is an explosion aimed directly against such rule in which a person does not have five minutes peace.

Is the nomenclature crumbling here for the first time. The judges are protesting, rumor has it that things are cooking in the army as well. You yourself called general Perisic a few times to take a stand and say what the army thinks about all this.

I believe that this time the nomenclature and generally people holding top positions have started to crumble significantly. Otherwise, I didn't call general Perisic to really take a stand. It wouldn't be wise to address institutions such as the army, police or courts with the demand - come on, join us. That isn't good. Why would I, for example, join the Socialist Party of Serbia (SPS). My message was - do you, general Perisic, agree when the will of the nation is not recognized and when electoral theft is performed. Regardless of the fact which position you hold. That is not a party issue. Why would people in the army, courts, police or the very SPS agree with such thefts. I mentioned the Minister of Culture Nada Popovic-Perisic in the same context because I know that she isn't a person who would accept such things. Maybe she won't say so openly, but I know she does not approve of such things. Regardless of the ideology and function, we have before us an attempt to annul the electoral will of the citizens in Serbia. We are actually faced with the message that the government here is eternal. At least that was the way I understood what Milosevic has now entered into. He announced - I cannot put my name into the constitution as Tito once could, yet I shall let you know that the government is unchangeable.

In your opinion, has the regime consoled itself over the loss of Nis and is only debating over Belgrade?

It would be best for them it they could avoid that logic victory-defeat. They could have, even prior to the arrival of the OSCE commission, let one by one municipality go and avoid having all this defined as a clear victory or clear defeat. That would, naturally, draw less attention of those who had won and those who had lost, it would have been less apparent. But Belgrade remains as very unpleasant. It remains as a symbol of the electoral theft. It is certain that Belgrade has another meaning, a primarily financial one. Otherwise, lately we have heard lots of talk here about the Romanian model of changes and by rule it has the fate of Chaushesku in mind. This has nothing to do with it. The only similarity is that there prior to the recent presidential elections on which Iliesku lost, the opposition had won the local elections. Local elections are very important in the organization of the following elections, since you no longer have to start from a very low position, you have better possibilities to organize yourself, influence the media. There possibly isn't that much power in it, yet the starting position is incomparably better.

It is obvious that Milosevic is rather intensely losing his international credibility which he had after Dayton. How much are you from the coalition Zajedno attaining it?

The former is rather important for the overall democratic transformation of Serbia. I was always offended when people from outside believed how for us a dictatorship system was good. How we are some weird people from the Balkans, how horrible we are and how it is better for us to have certain Tudjmans and Milosevics to hold us back in our place. General belief had it that we couldn't resolve our own problems and how it was better for us to have certain capos. I especially started sensing this after they had proclaimed Milosevic as some kind of "factor of stability". I am glad, naturally, that apparently many of the people in the world have understood how an autocratic system cannot be a "factor of stability". That is one of the greatest achievements of these protests. Naturally, the issue still stands as to how great our credibility is. In my opinion, we are a threesome who lack time to deal with strategical questions, yet we have rather successfully preserved this citizens protest from turning towards some kind of violent option. As far as the future is concerned, it would definitely be better if Zajedno would no longer be a mechanical coalition. Mechanical coalitions always retain possibilities for rivalry inside the coalition which does not inspire confidence. Other modalities of a coalition exist, of a more long-term character. The mechanical attachment of parties just for the elections organizationally isn't good.

Rumors can be heard in Belgrade how in the coalition Zajedno a search is in progress for a new neutral party persona who would, as governor Avramovic at one point did, take the lead and gather even those who are afraid of changes.

In our conversations we did not mention such a possibility. For now no such ideas exist. Naturally, reasons exist when a coalition is formed amongst a few parties to find someone from outside who would stand at the head, as Dragoslav Avramovic did. We lost a lot by his withdrawal since he was our integration point, a guarantor of something. We called him, not because someone wished to find a different person, but rather because that was functionally necessary. As a point of support. It shall be very interesting, once this fuss blows over, to see how things shall stand in the very opposition. Yet the model for a search of a new outer party persona has been used up and I believe that another road shall be decided upon.

Do you feel a certain kind of personal satisfaction over all that is happening now. Today people are protesting as both citizens and Serbs, since they have been politically crippled. Prior to this, they were only Serbs...

I am satisfied, but not because the option which I have consistently stood by has won. In a way I have been liberated as well. We all saw how everything in the past was very wrong. We felt a certain kind of frustration in connection to our own identity, so that a person felt nauseous with regards to it all. Now I too feel a certain kind of relief. I love my Serbian country, it is dear to me. Many people have remained prisoners of the old model how we have to be absolute sticklers for cleanliness and negate our national identities. A modern nation always includes certain citizens rights, which doesn't mean that we should negate some identities which are both linguistic and cultural. There is no reason for us to have complexes because a Serbian identity exists since taken on its own that isn't neither good nor bad. No complexes should exist with regards to it. All we can do is feel very good that we have added a democratic element to it all which makes us a true nation. Up till now we could only have been a mass which was being homogenized, which had a certain father or mother, and we are now becoming a mature nation which wishes to rule over its own country. Which can only make all of us feel very proud.