Cards On Table

Zagreb, February

On Croatia's volatile political stage, Josip Manolic is seen as a moderate member of the ruling party. Unofficially, he is counted among the Croatian Democratic Union's (HDZ) left wing. Anyhow, the Speaker of the "Upper House'' of the Croatian Assembly is an interesting person to talk to, as a man with a rich experience from World War Two and a politician who, after this war, visited Belgrade twice to discuss the normalization of relations between the two states.

VREME: The Geneva Agreement was of an undoubted importance for the normalization of relations between Yugoslavia and Croatia. What, besides the formal and technical details, are its main effects?

MANOLIC: I don't think the Serbian-Croatian relations will be getting back to normal in big paces. This can be done only through small steps and a gradual settlement of accumulated problems. We must approach the normalization process from the point of our present and future. If we take this as our goal, we can very quickly reach the point of agreement, which will further pave the way for the settlement of the most urgent issues. Some people believed that we can talk with the Serbs only after they recognized Croatia within its internationally recognized borders. But if we had accepted this approach, there would have been no point of departure.

The recognition certainly is an important issue, but it should be resolved in talks. Orin war. In the war that we had waged--whether formally and legally acknowledged or not, but surely a horrifying war with no winners and no losers. We had to make a choice: whether to continue the war until one of the two sides wins, or as we did stop frontal attacks, sit at the negotiating table and discuss all outstanding questions. Now that we have opted for the latter approach, it makes no difference whether we first discuss Yugoslavia's recognition of Croatia within its borders or vice versa. With all cards on the table, we can choose where to start--maybe from second rate questions such as the visit to Croatia by a group of Serb independent journalists, or a round table of Serb and Croat intellectuals. They are not politicians, they cannot resolve the problems, but they can create the climate of trust necessary for further talks.

VREME: Official Zagreb has called the Geneva Agreement Croatia's strategic interest. The opposition, however, asked what kind of strategic interests could it be to sign agreements with Milosevic.

MANOLIC: Normalized relations with a neighbouring state, Serbia which is a part of Yugoslavia, is Croatia's strategic interest. It's a quite different question, as posed by the opposition, why should we negotiate with the man who initiated this terrible war. Our policy must be based on reality and must include talks with the man who rules Serbia. It must respect the fact that Serbia has a legally elected president and that he is the one we should talk to.

VREME: It has been much talk lately of possible sanctions against Croatia, for its involvement in Bosnia. Why did you let your friends the Germans, for instance, who have always supported you readily to begin considering the imposition of sanctions on Croatia?

MANOLIC: Mistakes can be made from the moment you draw up a political strategy to the moment you carry it out. I think that mistakes were made during the implementation of our policy in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

VREME: Which particular mistakes are you referring to?

MANOLIC: There was not much readiness to cooperate with the Moslems and their central authorities by the Croatian side, especially not by Croats in Bosnia. There was not musch respect for the fact that the United Nations has recognized Bosnia-Herzegovina as a sovereign state. We should have taken this into account and adjust our policy to this fact.

VREME: You have decided to pull out your troops from Bosnia-Herzegovina?

MANOLIC: First of all, our official policy claims that there are no Croatian troops there, except for Croat volunteers from the Croat territories people who volunteered to fight in Bosnia. I think that the two week period that was given to Croatia to examine and reconsider the actual situation will be suffient for Croatia to make certain steps if necessary to meet the demands set by the international community.

VREME: Are you saying that no Croatian troops are present in Bosnia-Herzegovina?

MANOLIC: I'm saying that this is the stand of the official policy. And we must trust the official policy. Someone else will have to establish the facts.

VREME: During the Second World War and after it, you've had many friends in what used to be Yugoslavia. What are your relations with them now?

MANOLIC: That's what a U.S. reporter asked me some time ago. I told him that I still think of them as my fellow fighters. But the fact is that Serbia attacked the Republic of Croatia and all those who took part in this are surely not my friends. That we used to be friends gives us a hope that we could be friends again.