Spy Hunt

One of the people over whom battles are being fought in the conflict between Biljana Plavsic and the authorities from Pale is Dragan Lukac, the commander of the 6th brigade for anti-terrorist activities. Following his transfer from the position of commander of this brigade, which was ordered by the minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs (MUP) Dragan Kijac, the President of the Serbian Republic (RS) adopted a decision to suspend that minister. At this moment this policeman, with the men who have remained loyal to him, is the only person in the entire MUP ranks who is supporting the President of the republic. He speaks to Reporter exclusively of all the events inside and surrounding the President's residential premises.

REPORTER: From the beginning of this conflict, you supported the President of the Serbian Republic. At your own will or following the President's appeal?

LUKAC: Everything was complicated from the outset, and the story would be too long if I were to start from the very beginning. On the basis of a command issued by the President in which she informs minister Kijac that his commands cannot be carried out, I respected her command and put myself on her side.

The unit you are commanding is composed of the soldiers from the war. Are they prepared to follow you in your support of the President?

I told them at the beginning that I would not ask anyone to do anything which they believe shouldn't be done. I won't ask anyone to support me in anything if they believe that they shouldn't. I also told them that if anyone gives up at some point, I won't hold it against them since that is their personal belief, and my belief greatly varies in comparison to many others'. I believe the President should be supported since I don't believe she would wish anything bad upon the Serbian nation. She wishes to do something for that nation, which would present people with a better life, since those who had ruled thus far certainly haven't done anything in that direction and, what's even worse, have no intention of doing anything.

You met the police general Saric and other police officials twice in the Bosnia hotel. You were the only person there from the president's "camp". The first meeting seems to have been extremely tense and apparently accompanied bz harsh words. The second one was private. What can you tell us of those meetings?

I didn't refuse to meet with any of them, even with the minister before this happened, along with general Saric and his associates. I was always prepared to sit down and talk it over, although I always retained a belief and stand in my own opinion. I am prepared to go to the very end of the journey which I had commenced. As far as the talks are concerned, there were no, how should I say, harsh words between us, rather a confirmation from both sides that there would be no problems, that things won't end in the worst possible way. We would always finish our conversations with a good-bye and a wish to sit down together like we did in the old times, in a pub or somewhere else, and to speak of completely ordinary things. The second meeting didn't bring anything new, I stood my ground.

You are decisive as far as your stands go. How much decisiveness did he express?

He didn't express decisiveness before either. Maybe he has somewhat more respect for that hierarchy, he's more of a "hard-line" soldier. That's probably why he couldn't stand up against a certain kind of subordinancy in MUP as far as issuing commands goes. I did that, although I became a rebel because of it. Some say, without a reason. I think, with a reason.

Whose commands does the RS police obey?

That was apparent at the meetings which minister Kijac held. The chiefs of police mainly sided with him, disregarding the President and her commands. I don't know why things are that way. Maybe in the MUP hierarchy they don't wish to or don't dare to deviate from the system of command. In a certain way, I did, and in their eyes, as I keep repeating, I became a rebel. With or without a reason, time will tell.

Is there any truth in the story that Radovan Karadzic had called Biljana Plavsic and threatened her?

I don't know anything about that, although various threats were hurled at her from various sides. However I don't know anything about this specific case.

Are you directly cooperating with SFOR or was their action in the night when the President arrived self-initiated?

I have no interest to collaborate with SFOR in any way. I have my orders issued by the president, which I execute aiming to provide security for both her and for ourselves. They probably have their own orders, from their commanders, and I don't care who their contacts are.

Do you feel that you are a part of MUP or merely the President's security officer, which is where your loyalty stands?

Despite all this, I have no reason not to feel that I don't belong to MUP, and that I am not a member of the brigade for anti-terrorist activities with which I had been throughout the war. Those who had spend the war days with me know best how much I contributed to its establishment and the rating which that brigade has.

Certain members of your brigade have been arrested?

There's truth in that, since part of my men were in Pale. When they heard what was going on, they weren't informed of the situation and tried to come back to Banjaluka. They weren't allowed to.

Were they serving as Radovan Karadzic's security officers?

Yes, and are still holding those positions in Pale. I have nothing against them continuing to provide such security.

In case Karadzic personally was to issue you with a command on one hand, and Ms. Plavsic with another on the other hand, whose command would you obey?

During the war, I received commands from president Karadzic who was a legitimate president at the time. I carried them all out without a single question, together with my men, even though I had laid down both my own and my men's lives a number of times while executing them. Now I will execute the commands of the legitimate president of RS, as elected by the people. That means Biljana Plavsic.

We now see that the army of RS (VRS) has taken over a part of the responsibility in securing the Banski Dvor. How much can you rely on them in case an action against you commenced, and how much are you cooperating with them?

By the President's orders it is our duty to personally serve as her security. I have no reason to doubt the military police. They have orders to secure the building and I believe that they are doing a very good job. Besides that, I have a sufficient number of people to intervene in any situation in which the President's life would be imperiled. All contacts with Colac are conducted by the President's cabinet and I would rather stay out of such things.

The outcome?

According to the law and constitution, the outcome is well known. This is more of a political question. There might be more resistance against the President, however in the end, she will be the one who shall be number 1 in this country which belongs to her according to the constitution. The people shall win.

(This interview is taken from a special edition of the Reporter daily from Banjaluka)

Dragan Lukac

Born on Dec. 15, 1968 in Petrovac. Lived in Bihac.

A member of the special MUP unit in Banjaluka from the beginning of the war. Wounded a few times. Worst in 1995. Managed to stay alive after three operations. Had two blood transfusions. After his recuperation, returned to the position of commander of the 6th brigade until Dragan Kijac decided to replace him.